Cenni Najy is a graduate of the College of Europe and the vice-president of Foraus, a Swiss Thinktank on Foreign Policy. He obtained a PhD from the University of Geneva, where he is currently a lecturer at the Global Studies Institute. His current teaching and research focuses on European integration: With Béton Bleu Magazine he speaks about the COVID-19 crisis, European Integration and why he doesn’t see a European Public coming soon.

Béton Bleu: Hi Cenni, let’s start with the one topic everyone is thinking about: The COVID-19 crisis. A lot of people are currently disappointed about the lack of cooperation in the EU. Can you explain us which role can the EU play in a crisis like this, when it has extremely limited powers?  

Cenni Najy: The problem I see here is that we often tend to compare the EU with nation-states. But the EU’s “perimeter of action” is very different from the one of states. States can act quickly in times of natural disasters or pandemics. They can send planes with some relief material and use propaganda to increase the legitimacy of their actions. The EU was never given the competences to do that. Mostly because its member states did not want Brussels to run the show. This is one of the main reasons why many European citizens seem to be frustrated at the EU’s lack of reaction and praise the minor help given by outsiders such as Russia, Cuba… or even China!  

BB: Why were some areas of competences, such as health or even culture, not transferred to the EU? Shouldn’t a pandemic be part of supranational coordination?

CN: The decision to give the EU more competences is taken by member states mainly. Any member state can veto an extension of competences to the EU. Some have given that veto quite often – even when a majority of member states wanted to deepen integration. Culture and health are competences which carry a lot of political value for member states. These areas give the national leaders a legitimacy in the eyes of their citizens. Thus, it is somewhat unlikely that member states will transfer these competences to the EU. Unless the COVID-19 crisis is getting even more serious and would require some dramatic coordination actions to improve the fight against pandemics in Europe. I would not entirely rule this out at this point.

BB: We are now in April 2020, so not at this point yet. How would you rate the response of the EU to COVID-crisis so far?

CN: If you carefully analyse the response of EU institutions to the COVID-19 crisis, such as the European Central Bank’s quick measures to ensure no bank run occurs in the eurozone, you will see that many measures are actually very beneficial to the well-being of many EU citizens. The only problem with these measures is that they are quite “undramatic”. Measures such as quantitative easing are less visible to the public than the landing of a plane full of medical material, for instance.

European cooperation – in the intergovernmental sense of the term – is going rather well, including matters such as health. The “problem” I see is that each EU member state remain fully independent in the major policy decisions that it takes to tackle the spreading of the virus. For instance, to close the border or to ban public gatherings. These actions result in a certain level of chaos where certain countries face their responsibilities and others procrastinating or downplaying the crisis.

BB: But how could the EU improve its level of cooperation? What is missing? 

CN: In my opinion Europe needs a “federal” policy on the fight against pandemics. That means it should allow the European Commission to take measures via specialized agencies in a quick and decisive way. We need a unified European centre of decisionmaking that can act in a coherent way to limit the propagation of dangerous viruses such as COVID-19.

With Schengen, we have a wide and functional European passport free-area. Viruses don’t stop at the borders. Therefore we need to act together or at least coordinate our actions at the European level. Failing that, Schengen and possibly free movement might be slowly dismantled by member states, out of fear that open borders facilitate the propagation of viruses. 

BB: So you think crises like COVID-19 could shift the division of power between the EU and the member states?  

CN: It’s obviously too early to say anything precise here. However, the magnitude of this crisis is vast, we can certainly expect some significant political changes by the end of the year. 

BB: Which kind of political changes do you have in mind?

CN: One of the main victims of the crisis might be the “bilateral globalization” as we know it. For instance, it is likely that EU free trade agreements with countries that have low food and health norms will fail to get a political majority in Europe anymore. Let’s not forget that the COVID-19 crisis was most probably the result of poor hygiene standards on a food market in Wuhan. It is unlikely that such a situation could have happened in the EU where the standard of consumer protection is way more developed. At this point, there is one critical question remaining: Will this possible “de-globalization” reinforce nation-states or rather regional entities such as the EU?

BB: You are currently living in Geneva and working as a lecturer on the Global Studies Institute. Your research focuses on the relationship between Switzerland and the EU. Is Switzerland the mini-version of the EU?

CN: Switzerland achieved a rare form of constitutional patriotism – in the Habermasian sense of the term – that could maybe serve as an example for the EU. Some European intellectuals see Switzerland as a “poster child”, an example of what the EU should become (i.e. a federation that results from a slow integration between heterogeneous political entities). But I must tell you I’m very sceptical when it comes to such largely simplified Switzerland-EU comparisons.

BB: Why? 

CN: To be honest, I think it’s a bit preposterous to compare these two entities. Historically, Switzerland and EU’s starting – and ending – points are different. France, for instance, invented the concept of state sovereignty. I don’t see countries like these ever agreeing to become federated entities within a larger continental political organisation. At best, the EU can continue its incremental integration in a limited number of areas where member states are unable to perform their tasks and duties in an efficient way. But it is quite unlikely that most significant political competences will ever be transferred at the EU level.  

BB: When we come to speak about the competences in the field of culture, where the EU has limited power: Don’t you think that people would be more connected with the European Project if it had more competences - and budget - in that field?  

CN: Until now, states have been resisting to transfer significant competences such as tax system, social affairs, education etc. I see no signs that their policies are on the verge of change. Culture is certainly a necessary good to many people. Besides, one could make a good case in favour of the existence of a European culture – distinct from Western culture. That said, until now, culture has been dominated by nation states and it will be very difficult for them to share or even to transfer this competence to Brussels. Culture is a particularly sensitive topic for many European countries because it legitimizes their very existence, particularly through the perpetuation of national narratives.

BB: Despite these unique national narratives the EU Commission tried in 2019 to build a case with its strategy “Promoting our European Way of Life”. Unfortunately, it only ended in an essentialist debate.

CN: It’s hard to see what the EU Commission wanted to achieve with this “strategy”. I don’t really see this as a way to gain a cultural legitimacy, it appears that the move was related to immigration and the “need to preserve European culture”. But the link made between immigration and cultural security is disputed and disputable. This strategy is probably a clumsy attempt to improve the EU’s image by taking the preoccupations of some Europeans into consideration regarding immigration.

BB: Could the EU learn something from Switzerland when it comes to creating a ‘European Public’? For example how to solve the problem of multilingualism?

CN: In Switzerland, we have a saying: “Les Suisses s’entendent bien parce qu’ils ne se comprennent pas”. This roughly translates in the following way: “The Swiss get along because they don’t understand each other”. I must tell you there is no real Swiss public space. The francophones and German speakers live in separate public spaces which rarely interact with each other. The only thing that reunite the very diverse communities of Switzerland is the adherence to certain political institutions and maybe some values – although this last element is rather contested. As for Europe, I don’t think there will be a European Public anytime soon. Besides, to me, such a public space is not necessarily needed for the deepening of EU integration.

BB: Why not? Even Jacques Delors said once “You cannot fall in love with a single market”.

CN: Jacques Delors is right, it’s hard to fall in love with the EU as it stands now. But allow me to ask you a question now: Should we really fall in love with the EU? According to me, it’s necessary for the EU to be better understood by its citizens, so that they can make informed decisions – and diffuse fake news, which I consider as a major threat to the European integration project. Also, it’s time for member states to start having a more constructive approach towards European integration. The EU allows them to do things better (i.e. by focusing on some core competences while transferring others to Brussels) and is therefore an useful ally for nation states, especially in times of globalization. Member states need to stop EU-bashing. UK’s Brexit is a good example of where such dangerous games can lead. The end of EU-bashing at the member states level constitutes the main key for the EU to improve its image in public opinion.

BB: Thank you for your time!

Interview: Ana-Marija Cvitic

(C) 13/04/2020

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